infantileultraleftie:

thepeacockangel:

infantileultraleftie:

thepeacockangel:

thepeacockangel:““vegan-because-fuck-you:“ apocarain:“ vegan-because-fuck-you:“ THE VEGAN AGENDA Also known as ”Hey maybe we shouldn’t exploit, oppress, torture and kill sentient non human animals…

I don’t think it’s necessary to have a detailed knowledge of it to be vegetarian or vegan, but I think a lot of people need to understand that the natural relationship between humans and livestock (a relationship that’s been perverted by factory farming) is a symbiotic one.  We eat what is essentially chickens menses and in exchange we protect them from predators, give them food and medical care and shelter.  It’s like one of those birds that cleans alligator’s teeth.

Then when it dies you boil it for a good long while and make a stew, a little morbid, but certainly not unethical.  

A couple of things here,

1. What is the ‘natural relationship between humans and livestock’ given that livestock have been created and shaped by human activity?

2. ‘when it dies’ – we don’t wait for animals to die, we slaughter them

3. ‘perverted by factory farming’ – I’m sure we could imagine some ideal (to which some farm produce adheres) that is as ethical as you can get – plenty of green space, minimal cruel practices, etc for farm animals, however the overwhelming majority of meat is not produced in such conditions (and it isn’t viable for it to be). Even then, even the least cruel processes require slaughter which can never be humane.

1. Humans being a part of nature, are natural.

2. Yes, that’s a problem, and I’m not saying we don’t need to reduce meat consumption for most people.

3. We need to reduce the amount of meat consumed.  Advocating the abolition of meat doesn’t work, I will die.  However, we could ethically farm dairy, wool, and eggs (and probably pork from keeping pigs as food waste disposal animals) and probably produce enough meat for the portion of the population that requires it with animals that die of natural causes, supplemented with meat produced by culling of wildlife populations that would otherwise die in mass starvation due to our having wiped out their natural predators (see: deer in the northeast) and what we can harvest from sources like road kill (we’d need an organization of prompt, and efficient butchers to report to reported sites of carcasses to maintain hygiene and edibility)

1. You’re the one who brought up what’s ‘natural’ as a justification for meat, if we’re going to take the (pretty much correct) view that everything is natural then we shouldn’t be debating it as an ethical point, on either side.

2., 3. These actually seem like reasonable proposals, I think we disagree less than we think. Not saying its my ideal, but would be better than the status quo. In any case your ideas are compatible with, and probably require, lots of people almost entirely giving up animal products – so me being vegetarian or advocating others to do so hardly goes against this. 

1. I was pointing out the relationship has been perverted by capitalism.

2,3. Yes, we do basically agree, I was never suggesting that we came from radically different points.  I tried to be vegetarian and it devastated my health.  I was just pointing out that it’s not feasible for everyone, though I do not think it is necessary to give up things like ethically produced wool.