Like men are able to get away with never expressing of requesting help with their feelings because women are trained from a very young age to observe men, watch for signs of emotional need and environmental stressors and deal with them without being asked. It’s why women worry constantly about emasculating the men in their lives but men never worry about “efeminating” the women in their lives.
Men are “stoic” only because they don’t have to communicate in order to get their emotional needs met.
it sounds like you are very, very specifically not talking about beta males.
Beta males? Would you say more about that?
Well, obviously it’s just a generalization, but, just generally geeky unpopular, unattractive guys, guys who don’t know how to make friends and strait guys who don’t know how to get a date. They generally don’t get their emotional needs met because they typically cant talk about their emotions to anyone, because when they do, they get rejected or shut down, by men and women alike. By mid teens, beta dudes (except maybe the nice guy types? idk bout them, some of them are feminists, some are mra) rarely talk about their sensitive side to anyone (besides the one girlfriend they may have managed to get in their life). The idea that OP could be accurately describing them is unlikely. Op very likely only knows confident men because they are the only ones who approach her. Their description of these things is a total mismatch of what my experiences have been. The men in my life are either hippie-like and completely open, or they’re betas who don’t open up to anyone, or they’re the kind of people who bottle everything up and only express inner emotions through anger and jokes, or are somewhere between the three. But I don’t know many particularly confident, successful men, but the ones I’ve met could probably fit OP’s description, maybe.
A: There is literally no such thing as a beta male. There aren’t even actually beta wolves, the “alpha/beta/etc” hierarchy only appears in wolf packs in unnatural conditions in captivity. It’s a stupid buzzword that means nothing
B: I approached the men I’ve been with, the ones who’ve approached me aren’t worth bothering with.
C: The women in these guys lives, not just romantic partners, still do a fuck ton of emotional labor. Women are scared geeky unpopular guys are going to fucking murder them if we reject them in a way that doesn’t stroke their ego. I’ve done a fuck ton of emotional labor for these types of guys in my life because I was scared of them. I’ve spent a lot of time in nerd communities with fucking bitter shitty little nerds, and guess what? Still had to meet their fucking emotional needs, which they whined about in subtle ways other men wouldn’t notice but I would constantly.
A) When you want to be right, lie or deny? WTF? Alpha male wolves and alpha female wolves are generally the only ones that mate and they control their position through dominance – and ya, in nature. This is so fucking well documented, denying it illustrates something you probably wouldn’t want to admit about yourself.
Here, take it up with National Geographic. I’m sure they don’t know what they’re talking about either. http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/the-savage-line/articles/wolf-watch-facts/
And while we’re at it, National Geographic on humans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd2NTQPl7D8
En-fucking-joy.
B) Awesome. Good for you. Way to generalize anyone that’s approached you just because they’ve approached you. Maybe we could all make the same generalization about you, since you do all the walking and talking in your interactions? I’d hate to, but you lead us here yourself.
C) Sounds like women need a little shot of that stoicism that is so envied and reviled in men. But that would make stoicism a good thing???
Maybe instead of getting down on men for inherently not caring as much, maybe women could lighten-the-fuck-up a bit and realize women perhaps inherently care more, if not too much? That’s not such a bad thing, unless, apparently, you expect it from yourself and so you’re pretending to be nice to everyone to their faces while secretly hating them. You’ve just detailed the emotional-labor minefield men are forced to navigate with women on a daily basis. Navigate is a strong word, it’s more like, since we’re all emotionally retarded, we plow a path strait through that shit and get blown sky high all the time – and y’all don’t even know it or give a shit. Wait, women unaware of the effects they might have on others through their actions and words!? BlasFemy!
Is it really emotional labor if you’re just pretending to out of fear? Women using their innate emotional sensitivities to be insensitive. Go figure. Happens a lot with the bitter-shitty-little bitch crowd.
C2) Better not say anything around Sandy, she’ll think less of you just for saying you’re depressed. She’ll ignore the reasons you stated, pretend to console you, but then tell her friends you’re unfuckable because she thought someone else wouldn’t fuck you, then tell boss you’re less effective at your job because she thinks you’re a closet axe murderer one more rejection away from snapping. She didn’t think much of you before, but now she just thinks you’re an emotional cripple that needs her feigned ego-help everyday, what a burden for her to have to help you without you even knowing it. Better stay home and think about killing yourself today because no one is real with you and no one really cares about you because you’re not emotionally intelligent enough to understand people’s (women’s) double-speak or navigate being socially acceptable to people that don’t want to fuck you.
By the way. Life’s short. Just like everyone that wants to fuck you.
C) Some more) And you’ve just described the very phenomenon and exact population that is usually considered “beta,” go fucking figure. I know there’s a brain in there, it’s just not working. All those “bitter, shitty, little nerds” you wanted nothing to do with because of the extra emotional care you decided was your obligation to take. But betas don’t exist!? Oh-ho-ho-ho!
Thanks for being so sensitive and kind to those bitter, shitty, little nerds. You’ve done them a huge favor stroking their egos with rejection and made the world a better place and avoided being a mass murder victim, saving the lives of countless others. Pat yourself on the back for pretending to care about people through the tunnel vision of stereotypes and unhealthy views on men.
Btw, odds are they’re going to go home and kill themselves, not you. Be afraid of that. Bitch.
You’re a real piece of work, carved strait from that fabric of shit everyone be talkin’ ‘bout. Did you have to work hard and read lots of books and meet lots of people to get to this level, or is being this terrible of a person come natural to you?
Warning: long post, you don’t have to reply but if you do please read it CAREFULLY because it’s very long.
1. Can we please be a little less rude and try not to be insulting each other? Thanks, it makes it easier to focus and agree this way.
2. Tbh, I agree with the researcher here; that alphas simply mean breeding pair, and their dominance follows from the fact the other wolves are mainly their children, rather than their dominance allowing them to mate. http://www.snopes.com/wolf-pack-photo/
3. I think you agree that men are less emotionally sensitive than women, and perhaps have less emotional strength because of this. The important questions are:
-is it inherent to different people to have more/less sensitivity?
-is it better/realistic to aim for more/less sensitivity?
-is emotional strength linked to your own sensitivity level, or others? Or is it purely taught?
-do those with increased sensitivity/strength have a duty to hide it from others, or use it to help others, without expecting anything back?I’m using strength to mean “ability to deal with ones emotions, either alone or through communicating needs effectively to other people”.
I’m using sensitivity to mean “degree of emotional impacts on the self, and ability to sense these impacts in others”.
From what you’ve said, it looks like men have high levels of feelings but low levels of sensing them in others, and low emotional strength, whereas women have high levels of all of these.
You’re also saying that some men have lower levels of feelings, and thus a higher ability to cope with said feelings. It’s implied this is the preferred state of being in your opinion.
I think you also fall into the “responsibility to help” and “it’s all inherent” camps, thus women generally should be aware of men generally (but not in a “patronising” way, because it’s these differences in strength/sensitivity are inherent and deserve respect not scorn).
I don’t think we agree and I do think that that is okay.
Personally, I think emotional strength/ the ability to cope is taught/learnt, whereas sensitivity is inherent, and that most men have higher levels of sensitivity than they let anyone see combined with a stronger ability to successfully bottle it up. I don’t think that’s a good coping mechanism, but in the short run, they might be/look happier.
Ultimately my ideal is high emotional strength for everyone, so we can all help each other.
I think that if strength is something that can be learned, we have a responsibility to ourselves to grow emotionally and lead our own support to some degree, knowing when we really need help from others and making sure we respect their feelings too (but mainly our own, because that way everyone’s got someone looking after them). Arguably, you could say that that way no one’s got anyone. Its a matter of opinion, mainly centering on whether or not emotional strength is a skill.
If it’s not learned, then why shouldn’t, evolutionary speaking, people just use it for themselves? If you wanted to build a society of people who can read others effectively, why worry about those who can’t? Just hypothetically, you know I don’t think that’s the case.
Tl:Dr emotional strength; is is learned? +if do we have to share it out either way?
A correction that i need to point out to @
apocalyscious , the guy who popularised the idea of ‘alpha-beta-omega’ wolf later disavowed the idea:
“ … explaining that it was heavily based on the behavior of captive packs consisting of unrelated individuals, an error reflecting the once prevailing view that wild pack formation occurred in winter among independent gray wolves. Later research on wild gray wolves revealed that the pack is usually a family consisting of a breeding pair and its offspring of the previous 1–3 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack_(canine)#Dominance_and_the_alpha_wolf
Wolves do display dominance in packs but the idea of alpha wolves is misleading and complicated
So actually acting “alpha” is yelling at your kid when he won’t put his goddamn shoes on
Thoughts From The Peacock Angel 