there’s literally no way to be anti sex work without being anti sex worker
Absolutely not true. If I am anti-sweatshop labour, am I against the poor women who are forced to work in those conditions? If I am anti-child labour, am I anti children in poverty? No. It is BECAUSE we give a shit about exploited people that we are against these industries. The vast majority of women in prostitution are not there because they want to be, and they want out. A minority of middle class, white cam girls who like what they do should not be able to trump the rights of the most marginalized women in the world.
The example given above is nothing short of bullshit, but before I explain let me make it clear I am not coming out with a stance on sex work because as I have said before I am still learning and have seen conflicting studies and anecdotal accounts from sex workers, and as someone with no experience in sex work I don’t feel that I have yet gathered enough information to form an opinion.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way, the reason that explanation is bullshit is quite simple. Those of us who are anti-sweatshop labor because of the abuse and exploitation of poor, underprivileged, and voiceless peoples are not against factory labor as a whole. Our demands are that factories treat labors humanely, increase wages, allow them to have decent hours, give them sick leave etc etc and therefore to compare it to the stance “sex-trafficking is exploitative and because so many people in the sex industry are trafficked or exploited in other ways, sex industry and sex work should be eradicated completely” is not the parallel response. The parallel response would be “because sex trafficking and exploitation of sex workers is so high, things within the industry must be changed, and criminal traffickers must be punished.”
Against sex-work but not sex-workers? That’s fine, I’m not going to argue with that stance, but come up with more logical arguments. Also, if you really care about the well-being of sex-workers then stop talking down to white sex workers. I’m as anti-white feminism as they come, but the fact of the matter is that in most instances (there are examples), despite their race sex-workers tend not to come from privilege even when they’re white (like there are other contributing factors such as SES). I’m sure if you think about it, you’d be able to understand why it is problematic for you to talk over and talk down to sex workers, at least I hope so.
In conclusion…get off your high horse?
Well, I would argue that mass production of cheap goods in factories SHOULD be abolished, as it is a symptom of capitalism, and even when workers have rights that protect them, the CEO of that company is still banking on the labour of women. I mean, when I say I am against child labour, I most definitely DO think children should not be involved in paid work at all, and that it should be abolished. Are you saying that if kids have workers’ rights, that it’s okay for them to be working 40 hour weeks in factories in Bangladesh?
I also wasn’t meaning to talk down to all white women in “sex work”, but specifically the middle class ones who aren’t forced into it and have the luxury of choice when it comes to clientele–as I specified in my post. I stand in solidarity with all “sex workers” who live in poverty, as the overwhelming majority of them WANT OUT.
I thought I made it clear in my post and my tags that I wasn’t all that interested in getting into a long discussion (because I’m a lazy pos), and that I didn’t want to discuss my perspective (because I don’t feel that I’m educated enough about these things to do so, plus I’m a lazy, cranky pos) but I’ll give it a go just this once.
I really respect that you have a consistent stance when it comes to the destruction of the system, and I have seen others have a similar-ish perspective as you do (I think) and tbh it often comes off as a bit backwards to me. Wanting to abolish capitalism is probably a great goal, but I’m not so sure that the right or sustainable order to do is to get rid of the jobs that lower ses and underprivileged people might have access to, except maybe there is a way to abolish all the shit with one wave of a wand? But even then, I’m not sure I agree that capitalism is that problem. I’m not a fan of capitalism (especially unchecked capitalism), but I just tend to be of the perspective that any system humans would replace capitalism would be shitty, and people would be exploited…and that the issue is our species and well DNA more than anything, but I guess that’s a different conversation.
I’m not sure why you brought up child labor, but no I am not for any sort of institutionalized child labor – but I am lucky as I have grown up in a first world country. Being South Asian, I have had the opportunity to have conversations with such laborers (not in Bangladesh, though I am close to people who have worked with Bengali laborers – including children) and their perspective seems to be “don’t obliterate what little opportunity we have to make money, make working conditions humane, only allow children to work part time so they can go to school and after doing that establish services (such as pension/welfare) so that things can change.” The system has to change, but it has to change in a sustainable way. As a South Asian, I don’t want things to change in such a way that would result in mass suicides.
I understand that you didn’t mean to talk down to sex workers, however, that is how it comes off especially to white (and non-white) sex workers who aren’t privileged but did choose sex work over other forms of work and yes, they exist. I’ve met them, and yes many do want to get out but talking in a manner that “talks down to them” won’t help them in this regard because intentionally or not it furthers the notion that sex workers – and I’m not talking about trafficked individuals – are morally corrupt, lazy individuals who can’t be trusted and wholl take the easy way out (which, by the way, every time you discuss “middle class sex worker” in this manner, you are perpetuating that stereotype).
I’m trying to learn, and so far what I’m coming to learn is that the best way to fight for individuals in that industry is to fight to provide them with the tools for them to strong advocate for themselves so that they can have these conversations amongst themselves.
Anyway, if you respond and I don’t reply, please don’t take it personally. I’m just injured, sleep deprived, stressed….and like…it’s hard for me to think about serious things atm. I need some light hearted stuff while I’m online.
I mean, here’s the thing. The only people who have a right to talk about “middle class vs working class” sex workers or wtv are sex workers themselves. This is an intra-community discussion, not for outsiders critiquing the industry. I have never been a middle class sex worker really, but I’m sure I have a better understanding of them than a non sex worker.
There are issues of classism and these girls not understanding other girls realities, but that’s not for non sex workers to talk about.
Some of us don’t have another choice, because of race, being a trans woman (tho I’m assuming this rad fem doesn’t give a shit about trans women and probably thinks trans men have it worse in the sex industry since they’re “biologically female” barf) and disabilities. I don’t have another choice either. So even if I did make a lot of money, the point is still moot.
Plus it further pushes this dichotomy of “hapless victim who can’t speak for herself” or “happy hooker who needs to shut up because her experiences arent representative”
SWERFS kill sex workers. Their policies put us in danger. the nordic model kills women. Anti trafficking laws are so horrible we can be charged with trafficking ourselves in certain states.
There’s no point to this conversation tho, because SWERFS continually talk over sex workers. If we have a platform to speak, they assume we’re “privileged” even tho I’ve seen street based sex workers blog and advocate decriminalization from their mobile phones they use.
And the current state of anti trafficking laws and resources hurt trafficking victims as well. Trafficked minors are still often put in fucking juvie. It’s disgusting.
I’m a sex worker as well and an ardent anti-capitalist, and like here’s the thing: You can be against sweatshop labor, you can be opposed to work in textile factories under capitalism but I’m pretty sure you’re not inherently opposed to shirts, and the thing is, opposing sex work rather than capitalism and the conditions of our labor is like opposing shirts rather than capitalism.
Also who doesn’t want out of their shitty job under capitalism? So does the factory worker, so does the retail worker. Sex workers living in poverty want to not live in poverty and work in shit conditions. That’s a condition of work in general not sex work in particular. If you want to fix that you have to get rid of capitalism, not try and reform it.
Also your class analysis is bad and you should feel bad, you aren’t dividing your classes correctly, sex workers are workers, and thus pretty generally proletarians.
Also mass production although it developed under capitalism isn’t inherently a symptom of capitalism, like anarcho syndicalism is a proletarian movement and wants worker control of mass production of goods, and eventually probably full automation.
Honestly, you sound real fuckin’ bougie, like you’re all “consumerism, consumption is bad”
Whereas in my experience proles like myself and my peer group are generally a lot more like “I want all that my labor produces” while you’re all like “hand sewn sustainable hemp smocks” and we’re like “Can we have a chair that isn’t falling to pieces” and you’re like “Garden in your yard!” and we’re like “We’re in chronic pain from being on our feet all day and not having health insurance”
Also: There is no ethical consumption under late capitalism.
Thoughts From The Peacock Angel 