Tag: csa

TW: CSA  What the fuck was going on in the 60s/70s?

What was going on in the late 60s/70s that allowed for like the 14 year old “baby groupies” to be a celebrated phenomenon, for Foucault (History of Sexuality I p. 27, 31, lots more  ) and Andrea Dworkin (Woman Hating 190-192 ) and Allan Ginsberg (noted for marching with NAMBLA) and Pat Califa (Public Sex contains an essay opposing age of consent laws) and Germaine Greer (The Beautiful Boy seriously read about that it’s FUCKED UP, also she advocated a bunch of other horrible shit but let’s focus on the pedophilia for now) and the International Spartacist tendency and probably a LOT more theorists/groups I haven’t read/heard of to say “it’s okay to fuck kids” in public and be prominant parts of the left/politically relevent/anything other than totally beyond the pale and not okay?  

And like I mean I don’t think we live in a society that handles CSA well by any means but like pedophiles are pretty well and thoroughly loathed by the vast majority of people.  They get murdered in prison.  People protest when one moves into the neighborhood.  A lot of people’d like to straight up murder them and like most relevant to my point, you’d be thrown out of… pretty much anywhere for saying the stuff these people said, and like that seems very much like the sensible response to me.  You shouldn’t listen to people who say it’s okay to molest children, that seems pretty obvious to me, and hopefully all of you.

So like how did we have a cultural moment where the radical left was like “you know, maybe it’s not only okay to fuck kids, but the radical, politically conscious thing to do”?  Like what was happening?  How did this exist?  How was there a time where Andrea Dworkin could say that “Curling irons are inherently oppressive (woman hating page 115), but adults having sexual interactions with children is an enlightening and positive thing”?  WHAT THE FUCK?  WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH POLITICS IN THE 60S AND 70S?
HOW?  WHY?  CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHAT THE FUCK WAS GOING ON?

Also Like WTF Is With Shota Being So Socially Acceptable In Yaoi Fandom

Like “Yeah, no, we’re just going to let people who are literally masturbating to child porn hang out like it’s NBD”

Like even people who aren’t doing it just seem to be like so…

blasé about the whole thing.

That’s a seriously fucked up norm.  Is it just because it’s mostly women?  Are we like “yeaaaaaah but it’s okay for women to fap to images of children”

Why is seeing sexual content bad for kids?

I’m not questioning whether it’s bad for kids, it’s pretty obvious it is, but like there have been numerous societies where due to space constraints one ended up sharing a room with your parents which meant seeing em go at it now and then. I think that the difference is probably that then it wasn’t an act that by merely being visible to the child involved the child. Cause then you were all sort of crammed together and like tuning each other out/ignoring each other was kinda the point but here and now, you don’t fuck in front of your kid unless on some level you *want* your kid to see, which sexually involves the kid who can’t consent due to the power differential and so that’s fucked up, similarly, you don’t show a kid porn unless it’s somehow tickling you to show them porn, which then becomes an aggressive act again. Which is why like kids who walked in on their parents by mistake are grossed out but not eternally traumatized, but kids whose parents intentionally got it on in their presence are. Ditto for kids who managed to find their parent’s stash of erotica vs kids whose parents intentionally showed them porn. Does that make sense?

Ephebophilia Is Not Better Than Pedophilia, but it’s also not the same as pedophilia

 Ephebophilia is not better, or more forgivable, or more understandable or less evil, it is just as bad. And before I go on, so that you don’t jump down my throat for having an opinion on something I have no experience with, let me say, I was a teenage girl who experienced sexual aggression from adult men, online and in real life, and I’m pisssed that I have to talk about my history of that and reveal myself in a way I find uncomfortable to talk about something I think is important.

I hate it when people assume that “Well if you say it’s not bad thing X, you must think it’s better than bad thing X” like when I tell people ISIS aren’t fascists, they often get all “You’re apologizing for ISIS” and I’m like “No, ISIS and fascism are BOTH VERY VERY BAD THINGS, but they are different bad things, not the same bad thing, they’re both murderous, evil, shitty and terrible, but fascism is a specific ideology and that’s not what ISIS is.”  A pit full of hungry alligators and a pit full of spikes are different things, but you don’t want to be dropped into either one.

And let me also tell you that ephebophilia is an important term to me, because of being targeted by adult men as a teenager.  Whenever adults called those men pedophiles, it felt like an adult misconception of the situation, the men were creepy and gross but the situation didn’t feel the same as it would have for a pre-adolescent child.  I was sexually active and sexually aware.  I experienced sexual desire, and definitely didn’t feel like a child in those situations.  Adolescents aren’t children, they’re in a different developmental stage, but that doesn’t make it even a little okay for adults to fuck them.   Only after I had a different terminology that allowed me to differentiate between people who prey on children and people who prey on adolescents could I express how fucked up it felt.  I wasn’t a child, but I didn’t have to be a child for what happened not to be ok.

I think that  A: victims of pedophilia and victims of ephebophilia will need different treatment because they were at different developmental stages when trauma occurred, B: pedophiles and ephebophiles operate differently, and so we should understand the differences to be able to detect and deal with them effectively C: children are too young to be having sex with ANYONE, teenagers are too young to be having sex with adults, most teenagers are sexual beings, adults are inherently in a position of power over them because of their greater knowledge and experience as well as their position in society. Like, we understand that having sex with your adult college students as their professor is rape and is wrong because of the position of power but they can have sex with each other, and we understand that NO ONE should be having sex with someone who is passed out drunk, because yeah, and that these situations are equally wrong but also differ in their circumstances in ways that mean their prevention requires different tactics D: The fact that we consider separating the two to diminish the wrongness of adults fucking adolescents is indicative of how deeply ingrained the idea that it’s ok for adults to fuck adolescents is E: I think putting adolescent victims in the same category as child victims actually insidiously implies that ‘if you weren’t a kid anymore, if you were experiencing sexual desires at that point, if you weren’t ‘pure’ then your victimization doesn’t count.’ F: Denying that teenagers are sexual beings, with sex drives just serves to reenforce the idea that someone having and/or expressing a sexuality of any kind whatsoever means it’s ok to take sexual advantage of them

I mean teenagers are VULNERABLE, they’re incredibly sensitive to other people’s opinion of them, their self preservation instinct is essentially closed for renovations, they often have incredibly powerful sex drives which can be used to manipulate them and aren’t used to adult manipulation tactics and thus don’t have defenses against them.  They are capable of being sexually attracted to adults, which makes them extremely vulnerable to the advances of predators. 

Ephebophilia is also socially sanctioned in a way that pedophilia is not, the 16 year old girl sexually desirable to adult men is an acceptable character in media, the 6 year old girl?  Not so much.  Pretending it’s all the same thing is dangerous and harms victims.

Also I Think That Drunk People’s and Adolescents’ ability to consent to sex is a lot like their ability to consent to get a tattoo

It won’t turn out as an awful traumatic thing you regret for the rest of your life in every single case, sometimes you actually did want to get a full face tattoo of spiderman’s mask and you’ll be incredibly glad you did it, but we don’t let drunk people and teenagers get tattoos because there’s a great enough risk that their decision making is compromised (by alcohol or the power an adult has over a kid or whatever) that we make them wait until they’ve slept it off, or until they’re a little older to do the thing, because we just can’t tell if it’s the booze/awe/desire for adult approval talking or them, and it would be unethical to take the money and do the tattoo.  This is the same reason an adult who has sex with an adolescent, or a person who has sex with someone intoxicated is at best extremely irresponsible and unscrupulous, and at worst actively malicious and taking advantage of someone in a vulnerable position.

And so like even if Lori Maddox is completely psychologically unscathed and really enjoyed losing her virginity to Bowie, it was still utterly wrong and fucked up of him to have sex with her, similarly, no matter how much you still love the ink your cousin’s shady friend gave you when you were 14, he was still a bad dude.  She doesn’t have to be damaged for him to have done something really really bad by putting her wellbeing at risk like that.

I had sexual experiences as an adolescent with people older than me that I regard as consensual even now, like they didn’t damage me, I had fun, but it was still wrong for the people older than me to agree to do that with me.

Like sometimes drunk people and adolescents do give genuine consent, but the problem is there’s literally no way to tell the difference between legit consent and not-actually-consent, so you just shouldn’t go there.  You see what I mean?  And even if it turns out fine, and the person turns out fine, you were still putting them in danger and that’s still very fucked up.

Basically my point is: A: If consent is blurry, then it doesn’t count, even if it turns out later it was real consent and B: Even if a victim comes out unscathed the perpetrator still did something very wrong, like it doesn’t matter that she says she had fun, even if that’s true, even if she’s not covering up some damage done by the incident, it doesn’t make what happened ok

(Yes I also do know that alcohol is a blood thinner which result in problems with tattooing, but you see my point)

Like Can You Imagine A Society Where Teenage Boys Were Treated As This Ultra Tempting Forbidden Fruit

With their squeaky ass voices, and face grease and waaaaay too much body spray.

Cause like we treat teenage boys attempts at seduction as laughable and teenage girls attempts at seduction as supremely polished and effective, when in reality they’re just as clumsy and goofy as their male counterparts.

Like our society treats teenage girls as shitty and incompetent and clueless in every other area of life from their taste in music to their ability to drive to their knowledge of political issues, but when it comes to seducing adult men suddenly they’re sophisticated sexual rocket scientists?  I don’t buy it.

Teenage Girls Are Basically The Same As Teenage Boys

I feel like treating teenage girls as these bastions of sexual purity is creepy, and denies their humanity and sexual agency, they should be thought of more like teenage boys (on average a bunch of pimply embarrassing chronic masturbators who will definitely develop crushes on people who are way too old and sophisticated for them, who an adult would never in a million years want to fuck, who should be let down kindly but firmly)

.  They’re teenagers.  A lot of them will be ragingly hormonal and horndoggy as fuck, I know I was at that age.  I was obsessed with getting laid, and simultaneously a devious little shit and incredibly vulnerable, I mean basically teenage girls are teenage boys + the experience of misogyny + the inexplicable cultural myth that you should be attracted to a bunch of goofy ignorant kids who don’t know shit yet.

Like yeah, they’ll put the moves on adults, just like teenage boys will, but like teenage boys they’re inept and the whole thing should make you feel embarrassed and not aroused, and if you’re aroused by that wtf is wrong with you.

Like the boy with the crush on his hot lady French teacher will get laughed at, the girl with a crush on her hot dude French teacher should also get laughed at, not present a temptation

What Really Fucks Me Up About The Whole Bowie Thing Though

The whole Bowie/Lori Maddox gross fucked up shitty thing.  Is that I was a sexually aggressive teenage girl, a groupie, I was the one who’d lie about my age to sleep with men who were too old for me, and what fucked me up then and still fucks me up now is that men didn’t say no to me when they found out, and if they made half an attempt, I’d find away around it.